Jesus (in physical), talking with a group of spirits with a wealthy lady as their spokeswoman

N. L. D./Lady:     I have been here for such, what feels like the longest of times and I feel scared, I have been too fearful to speak.  We have been encouraged… we have been ushered to the front.  There are other groups that we have an awareness of, but, we are but a small group, and we are not quite sure why we have been ushered in this way, but here I am and, (sigh)… I’m… I’m so scared, we’re so scared.  We, …we are in darkness; we have been in darkness for a long, long time.  We know very little of why we are in this darkness. (Sigh) (Pause)

Some one is saying to me to tell, “How many there are of you”? There are about fifty of us here now, we, …if we can describe our miserable existence in this horrible darkness and I for one do not know why I am in this darkness. I do not feel I ever did anything so wrong, I have never murdered anyone, I have never done anything and most of those in this group have a similar, …we, …we, are fearful, we, …we, …we are so confused, because as far as we can see, none of us have been terrible.  None of us have, …have, …have stolen or, …or murdered or what, so why?  Why are we here? Why, why do we not see the sun?  Why do we not see, why do we not see beauty? Why, why are we contained in this horrible, cold, fearful, miserable place, where I feel my flesh is, …I, …no, it is, …I can’t it’s, …it is too painful! 

Please, …please perhaps you can explain why we are where we are, in this way or what, what do we need to do too because I am guessing by this ushering forward that, …that I have been encouraged to, I’m move, yes, I’m moving forward even more now, someone is, is encouraging me and what do we do? What do we do?

Jesus:                  Would you like to talk to me a little about your life on earth? What were the main feelings you had when you were living on earth?

N. L. D./Lady:     (long pause, very quiet) I was happy, …(pause), …oh, I was not happy. But I pretended to be happy, …I came from, …wealth, and we had, …we had servants, I did not feel that I had wronged anyone or anything.  We were a religious family.

Jesus:                  Would you mind saying what religion you were practicing, when you were on earth? 

N. L. D./Lady:     (pause) We were, …Christians, …my father was very strict.

Jesus:                  Where did you live?

N. L. D./Lady:     We lived in a barren place, …we had no one else around us. ...(long pause)

Jesus:                  What country were you in? Do you know? Do you remember how long ago this was?

N. L. D./Lady:     We, no, I, I, I’m not sure I can recall. (Pause). I can connect to some memories, and I feel I’ve been there, …have not been here.  I have been in this fearful place for such a long time.  I remember my father, and I remember the, …he was, …he was a disciplinarian.

Jesus:                  And how about the others in the group, …have many of them had a similar experience?

N. L. D./Lady:     Not, not quite in the same way, but we’ve come together because none of us understand why we’ve suffered so long.

Jesus:                  Right.

N. L. D./Lady:     We are all in fear all the time. And we know not how to get out of it!

Jesus:                  Were on earth were you afraid all the time you were on earth too?

N. L. D./Lady:     No.

Jesus:                  It was totally different.

N. L. D./Lady:     I thought I was happy, I thought I was living, as I should have been. (Pause). I eventually married someone who was like my father. And, …I thought I was happy, but I, but I don’t think I was now. I was, …we were taught to treat our servants as servants and to never encourage them in anyway, they were just there for us. And possibly this might be as I’m talking to you, …possibly the only thing I can think of is the way I’ve treated others who are lesser than me.

Jesus:                  Yes.

N. L. D./Lady:     Could that be it?

Jesus:                  Well, I would say that there are a number of things which we could talk about and that certainly is one of them. I was just so wondering to, …the others that are with you, have they had similar experiences in that they’ve had servants or they’ve had people they’ve felt are lesser than themselves?

N. L. D./Lady:     (Pause) There is uh general, …a general, …yes in some way.

Jesus:                  Yes, so many of them have felt like other people of maybe different religions or different walks in life, …like particularly different socio-economic conditions, …they believed were of lesser importance than they themselves were. Does that feel like a common thing between all of you?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes, …we are, …we all feel, …we did as, …what we thought was correct.

Jesus:                  Well that’s the thing I would like to talk to you about.  What often happens with regard to, when we pass from the earth life over to the spirit life, is that we become, …we come face to face with where we’ve done things that have not been in harmony with the way God desires, rather than the way we think is right. And the issue that your currently facing is that you believe that some things that you have been doing are right, but they haven’t been right from Gods perspective, and that’s why you are in the state you are in, a place of disharmony with love.  And that’s why you are in a place of darkness at the moment and its taken time for you, the group of you, to come to realize that, even though you keep saying to yourself that you haven’t done anything wrong when you were on earth. 

What God views as wrong is far different than what man views as wrong.  And when I say what God views as wrong, God has actually set up laws, so that whenever we break the law, there is an effect inside of ourselves every time we break a law that God made. Whether we’re aware of that law or not, it causes a problem inside of our soul.  It causes our souls condition to degrade and to become less harmonious with love.  And it’s the harmony with love that determines where we arrive in the spirit world and where we stay in the spirit world. 

So many of you have held on for such a long time to this viewpoint that other people are, …are lesser than you.  Even though you didn’t murder and even though you didn’t steal and even though you didn’t do those really bad things that you felt that you could have done, from Gods perspective treating another person, who is actually your brother or sister, in a state lesser than you is actually a very, very big disharmony with one of Gods laws.  And that causes you to remain in this state of darkness.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     I understand, but why would I have been punished in this way for something that I did not understand then, at that time. It was not deliberate, it was simply the way we lived, the way we had been taught to live.

Jesus:                  I understand, but firstly you are not being punished, it is just that inside of your soul there was a desire to feel that other people were lesser than you.  And until you are willing to change that there are very few things that can help you. Now I believe you are willing to change, that you are willing to re-look at that.  Is that the way it is?

N. L. D./Lady:     Anything, anything than where we are now, anything!

Jesus:                  Yes, well all right, let’s look at that feeling that you have about people and, what colour were the slaves that you had? Were they black slaves? Or were they a different race than yourselves?

N. L. D./Lady:     (long pause) a variety, all different.

Jesus:                  Different races?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  And it was just that you viewed them as lesser than you, your family?

N. L. D./Lady:     They were servants, they, they came from different backgrounds.

Jesus:                  Yes.

N. L. D./Lady:     They have different beginnings.

Jesus:                  And how were they treated compared to how you would normally treat others?

N. L. D./Lady:     They did not live as we lived. Because that is how it was, that, that is how we all lived.

Jesus:                  Do you think that is right?

N. L. D./Lady:     I thought it was right.

Jesus:                  What do you think now? Do you think that’s right when you think about it?

N. L. D./Lady:     Now that you speak to me it’s very wrong and I feel ashamed.

Jesus:                  Ok, so all that feeling of shame that you feel about that, you can talk to God about that feeling of shame that you have.

N. L. D./Lady:     How could I have not felt this before?

Jesus:                  Before? Well perhaps you were not ready to feel it before. When I say ready, you weren’t choosing to feel this before.  You weren’t choosing to look at it before, does that make sense?  Because it’s very hard sometimes to see where we’ve done things wrong that have hurt others, even though the hurt may not have been murder or some other kind of serious sin it’s still can be wrong by, by just having a feeling or attitude in your heart that other people are lesser than you.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     I understand. There are those with me who are responding differently. They are saying that this is the way of the world where we were that was our, our reality, that was our experience, that was all we knew. We did not feel there was another choice.

Jesus:                  I understand that, but while you stay in this condition of not wanting to feel any sorrow about how you treated others, you will also stay in the condition of darkness that you are in and this is the decision you make.  Perhaps I could explain a little bit about how repentance works as respects God, how does that sound?

N. L. D./Lady:     I’m ready to hear you.

Jesus:                  Well, I will use the white board just so that I can explain it and draw it. If you imagine that this is God, (Jesus draws a large soul symbol showing masculine and feminine) this is God, who is the creator of you.  And here is your soul, or here is your soul, and here are the souls of others (Jesus draws many miniature copies of the soul symbol, showing the masculine and feminine).  Now from Gods perspective all of these souls are his children, they are actually God’s children.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Every single person that has ever existed on earth is one of Gods children.  So yourself, so this is you (Jesus draws another symbol representing the soul of the woman he is talking to), so this coloured one here, this one I am colouring-in is you.  If you treat one of Gods children as lesser than you, who are you really treating badly? (Pause) Not only are you treating the person badly, but you are also, in a way, treating God badly too, aren’t you?

N. L. D./Lady:     This, this is too painful for me.

Jesus:                  Does that make sense though?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Yes, can you see that because they are Gods children, if I had a viewpoint towards one of Gods children as if they are lesser than myself, then in a way, I am telling God that He, …that he had a problem with the way that He created His children and really what I’m trying to do is project emotions towards God, or saying to God that there are problems with what He has done.  Now, when we do that we are actually, in treating another child as lesser than ourselves, we’re actually harming our own soul.  And every time we treat a child as lesser than ourselves there is an injury that gets put on our own soul. 

So we’ve got, if you can imagine (Jesus draws a red ring around the soul of the individual), you can see this red ring around there as an injury and lets say you treated another one of Gods children as if they were lesser than you, then there’s another injury that is put on your soul (Jesus draws another red ring around the soul).  Does that make sense?  If you treat another child as if they are lesser than you, then there is another injury that is put on your soul.  Can you see that what is happening is that there is more and more hurt in your soul?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes, yes.

Jesus:                  So not only have you hurt the other person by your action, you’ve actually hurt yourself and that’s one of Gods laws. That every time we harm one of His children, one of our own brothers and sisters, which are all Gods children, there is an extra hurt given to our soul. Does that make sense? 

N. L. D./Lady:     Your explanation is very clear but, but my question now is about how would we have lived…? How would our lives had function had we not, …continued as we did? …I, I don’t understand how.

Jesus:                  Well what God ...

N. L. D./Lady:     We could have had that same life?

Jesus:                  Well you couldn’t have the same life where people did everything for you, but what you would’ve had to have done, at some point, is to realize that every time you treated someone as lesser than you, you were harming yourself and then you would have stopped. If you had been sensitive to that on the earth, you would have stopped doing that.  And you would have started going down the track of being more responsible for yourself, what you did for yourself.  In fact you also would have had a desire in your heart to, …to actually do things with others or for others too.

N. L. D./Lady:     Would that have been possible?  Because we had these ways where we did not question, where we just did what, what had been done before.

Jesus:                  I know.

N. L. D./Lady:     This creates difficulty…

Jesus:                  It would have been hard… 

N. L. D./Lady:     and confusion, …I don’t see how, even if I had this knowledge, I could have been any different.

Jesus:                  Exactly, well what happens is that, let’s say, that this is where it comes down to personal responsibility.  Your father was a strict disciplinarian, wasn’t he?

N. L. D./Lady:     Very!

Jesus:                  And if you had treated one of your servants in a good way, what would have he had done?

N. L. D./Lady:      He would have stopped it.

Jesus:                  He, …and he perhaps would have punished you too!

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes, without a question.

Jesus:                  Okay.  So that meant that you no longer lived in harmony with truth and love, because of, so truth and love were hard for you because of the fear of your father.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  And can you see now why you’re in such a fearful state?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Does that make sense?  It’s because of the fear that you have about your father, that you did all these things. 

N. L. D./Lady:     I feel such pain and shame, Oh what a mess.

Jesus:                  Well there’s a way out, there’s a way out of it, but it’s not by holding onto a viewpoint that what you did was right.  Does that make sense?  There is a way out, but you need to come to understand that every time you act in disharmony with love and truth, every time you act in disharmony with those things, there is hurt on your soul, your soul will hurt.

N. L. D./Lady:     We feel, we feel such confusion now because, (sigh), …all the things that we want in our future are as they were then, as, as we experienced, and I wanted, I wanted a house with, with servants and with comfort, I felt this would bring me joy.

Jesus:                  Okay.

N. L. D./Lady:     So now what, what, well what do we want?  I, I don’t know what we want anymore!

Jesus:                  Yeah, that makes it difficult to make the choice about what would be a good, good life, doesn’t it? In a way…

N. L. D./Lady:     (pause)… I don’t know what it is any more.

Jesus:                  Well the way our Father created us at the beginning was that we all have a total self-responsibility.  And we all also live in a place where we are in perfect condition within our own body.  And we’re in the perfect way which will relate love to everyone around us, so in those conditions, when you think about it, would be beautiful, wouldn’t it?  Where everybody is helping everyone else.  Where everyone is living in paradise conditions and there is no oppression of any single person.  So you will never be oppressed. For example, you were oppressed by your Dad, by your earth father.

N. L. D./Lady:     And my husband.

Jesus:                  And your husband, yes, and that’s caused you yourself to oppress others in a different way, and your father or your husband oppressed you.  Does that make sense?  And in this new place, new environment which is available to you in the spirit world you can live in a place where nobody is oppressed.  Where you will not be oppressed, and also where you will no longer want to oppress others.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     So how, …how, …how do things work, if you do not have that system.  I don’t understand.

Jesus:                  Everything works through self-responsibility.  So you will become personally responsible for everything you feel and everything you do and every way you act and your own food and your own shelter and your own everything else that is. It is part of looking after yourself, that all will be part of your responsibility, if you will take complete self responsibility and everyone around you will to, no one will project things onto you either like your dad did or your husband did. To get there means also releasing some of your fear in other words being prepared to feel your emotions, that your afraid of feeling. (Pause) In the end you’ll feel very, very happy and content and even more than that you will feel blissful.

N. L. D./Lady:     I cannot imagine what that feels like.

Jesus:                  I know because you have never experienced that have you? So, can we talk about how to actually progress?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Imagine for a moment, right (Jesus gets up to draw on a board), there’s God (pointing to the soul of God), and here’s your soul, here (pointing to the representation of her soul).  Your soul is your passions, your emotions and your desires and your longings, your intentions.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  So your soul is that emotional part of you, it is not your physical body or your spirit body.  But it is actually inside of that or bigger than that, it’s actually your desires and passions and emotions and feelings.  Now imagine for a moment, inside of you at the moment, you said you had a desire to live with servants.

N. L. D./Lady:     Because I thought this would make me happy.

Jesus:                  That’s right.  But the desire to live with servants’ means the suppression of another person, doesn’t it?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Or the control of another person?  Now do you think God would agree with that?  Would God agree with your controlling another one of his children, bearing in mind that both of you are his children?

N. L. D./Lady:     No not now…

Jesus:                  He wouldn’t, would he?  So every time you desire something that is in disharmony with God, what will happen is that Gods Love can’t flow to you, and also you are not being loving to others.  Does that make sense?  … Now if you can, look through these desires and emotions that you have that are in disharmony with love.  So imagine this Love, and in this case we are talking about Gods Love, I am talking about Divine Love.  What you will need to start…

N. L. D./Lady:     What is, what is this Divine Love?

Jesus:                  Divine Love is love that comes from God.  Where as, there’s another type of love, that’s Natural Love and that love comes from within you.  Does that make sense?  So there is one type of love that comes from within your soul, and that’s Natural Love or the love that’s inside of you (Jesus points to his heart), …that’s your love, and Divine Love is Gods Love, the emotion God feels for everyone.

N. L. D./Lady:     Maybe I have no love in me.

Jesus:                  Well you certainly do have some love in you! Because everyone usually has a spark, at least, of Natural Love.

N. L. D./Lady:     But then why are we in this terrible place, we must have no love of any description.

Jesus:                  No, you, …you have some, but, but not much love, because you haven’t understood love.  Does that make sense?  You’ve thought things were loving when they weren’t. And so what this is going to be about is learning about love, learning about the difference between what God would want you to do and what is in harmony with Gods Love. Then you will start developing your love as well.  Does that make sense?  So when you have a desire in your soul that is in disharmony with either that kind of love (natural love) or disharmony with Gods love, every time you have that desire, then that desire needs to be removed from your soul.  Do you follow me?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  And if that desire is not removed then you will remain in the same location, as where you are, until that desire is removed.  Now the way, the fastest way to do this is to actually start developing a different kind of relationship with God.  Where you…

N. L. D./Lady:     You need to pray more!

Jesus:                  Yes, but what is prayer?  What do you understand as prayer?

N. L. D./Lady:     Hymns.

Jesus:                  Hymns?

N. L. D./Lady:     The Lords Prayer.

Jesus:                  Yes, well none of those are prayers.  Can I show you one…

N. L. D./Lady:     Do you have to go on our knees?

Jesus:                  No you don’t have to.

N. L. D./Lady:     Well what do we do?

Jesus:                  Let, let me talk about what real prayer is.  Let’s say, …can you understand that love is an emotion isn’t it?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Right, so Gods love is an emotion that is inside of God.  Does that make sense?  Now in terms of communicating with God, the way for you to communicate with God is for you to have an emotion and to direct it towards God.  Does that make sense?  That’s what prayer is.  You having an emotion directed towards God.  Now one of the emotions you might have is that you might long for …(pause, points to God on the board), Gods love, to enter you (points to the symbol representing the soul of the woman).

N. L. D./Lady:    It has never occurred to me that one could do such a thing!

Jesus:                  Yes.

N. L. D./Lady:     My, my understanding was that the, the more uncomfortable I was in prayer the more my knee’s hurt, the colder I was, the more likely it would be that God would hear me.

Jesus:                  No.  God doesn’t want you in discomfort.  But God does want to see that you are learning and having a real desire to learn about love.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Because you can kneel on the ground all you want and pray to God all you want, right, intellectually, from your mind (Jesus points to his head), but in your heart you might still want to have servants.  Does that make sense?  And if in your heart you still want servants, then there is this desire in your heart that is in direct contradiction to what God would want.

N. L. D./Lady:     Whatever you say, I feel such shame and I know the others around me do to.

Jesus:                  Yes. Well feel! Shame itself is an emotion too, but direct it to God. So talk to God about how you feel about things that you’ve done, that you didn’t know were wrong.  Does that make sense?  Talk to God about those desires and long for God to give you some of Gods Love, give you some of Her love so that …

N. L. D./Lady:     Her!  Her!

Jesus:                  Her.

N. L. D./Lady:     Why, why do you say Her?

Jesus:                  Because God has masculine and feminine qualities, right.  And if God has masculine and feminine qualities I can call God my Father and I can also call God my Mother.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     This is difficult for me.

Jesus:                  Yes.  So I can call God my Father or Mother.  And at the moment you know that you have some injuries with your dad, that what your dad was on earth you have some feelings towards your Dad, of fear…

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  Ok, so if I said to you, to pray to a Father in heaven, God, can you see how, you would feel bad about that, wouldn’t you?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  But how do you feel about your mother?

N. L. D./Lady:     I don’t feel she can do anything to help me.

Jesus:                  Right, so the direction, the feeling you will direct towards your Father, God, if you had, if were talking about your real Father, your heavenly Father now right, God.  If you feel towards your dad, when you were on earth, a feeling of fear, then you are also going to have a feeling of fear towards God, as your heavenly Father, right?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  And if you have a feeling towards your mother on earth that she can’t help you, because she is powerless, then you’ll also have a feeling that you’ll direct towards your Mother in heaven, God, that God is powerless too. Do you see that? So in the end those emotions that you feel about your parents are going to have to be released from you, if you want to develop a relationship with God.  Do you follow me?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  So my suggestion is there are some spirits around you, who have wanted to help you for sometime.  And they’ve been waiting; …they are spirits you see as a sort of bright lights.  Do you see them now?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes.

Jesus:                  All right, now some of them don’t even have a form that you can see, they’re just like a bright light, …giving, …wanting to appear before you.  There are others that have a brighter appearance than you, that you can see, but your fear has prevented you from even talking to these ones hasn’t it?

N. L. D./Lady:     We didn’t know we could talk to them.

Jesus:                  Well my suggestion is that you can trust them and they can show you, …they can show you how to actually grow towards God.  Does that make sense?  And they can show you how to re-find the love that you have inside of your self too.  So in other words they can show you how to get out of your current condition of darkness, where you are not happy and into a place of happiness. Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes, this would be so wonderful for us, if this were true.

Jesus:                  Now you can do this very rapidly, you could, within a few of days of earth time here be in a totally different location, if you just allow yourself to feel these emotions that you feel and work through them as these spirits suggest to you. Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     We will, we will, we will try.  We have nothing to lose.

Jesus:                  And you won’t lose. It’s not like, …God is not like your dad, right, God is not like your earthly mum either, in other words God is powerful and can help, but only when you want to connect with Her.  And God is not overbearing or judgmental or harsh or punishing and that’s how your dad was when he was in earth.  Right?  And God is not like that either.  And there are just some very strong conceptions of God that you currently have that you will  also need to experiment with to see that what you currently believe is very, very different from what God really is. Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Lady:     Yes, we feel, we feel, we have enough from you now, we feel.  We know there is much more that we need to learn, but, we feel hopeful now, and we, we will be happy to, to look for further help from this point, we, we are so pleased.

Jesus:                  Let us know too how you go.

N. L. D./Lady:     We would very much like to come back, we are so pleased that, that who ever that was that ushered us to the front, in such a way, did that, because I could never been here speaking with you in this way on my own.  I, I needed someone to help me get here and…

Jesus:                  I think her name was Beatrice actually.

N. L. D./Lady:     Beatrice.  We thank Beatrice.  We, we as a group are feeling a little more positive, we, we see little change around us, but we have a feeling in our hearts now of hope, so thank you.

Jesus:                  It’s my pleasure!