Jesus (in physical), talking with a group of spirits who classify themselves as atheists.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Yes we, we have an awareness of all you have been discussing.  We are quite a large group of what we would, yes, we would describe ourselves as atheists, for we have not believed in God when we were in physical or now. However the reason for drawing closer to you in this way is because we decided to progress.  We are dissatisfied with, …with where we are and we would like to know if there is a way to progress, without believing in God.

Or can we, …can we call, um, the universe, God? Can, …how, ….we have, …we have done, …we have had many, many discussions on this subject, (Jesus: ah ha) in many, many different ways and we have not really reached any found conclusions that, …that feel right.  But, yes, our main, …my main reason for talking to you now is because we do desire to progress and we have heard a little about the Divine Love but can we do this as atheists?

Jesus:                       Um, well yes, firstly if you want to progress without God, then certainly you can do so!  My question, though, …for you, …would be; why would you want to do so if progressing with God is going to be faster and also infinite in the way in which it occurs?  So that’s the question that you’ll need to look within yourself emotionally, …what, what emotions do you have against the belief in God?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Because we have not really (sneeze) felt there was proof that such a thing existed!  (Jesus:  ah ha)  It has never been proven to us, so therefore why would we believe in something that cannot be proven?

Jesus:                       Well it can be proven but for it to be proven you would need to try some experiments that you have up until now been unwilling to try.  So I suppose what I would suggest to you is, …that all of you are aware of the scientific techniques, and in particular the scientific techniques available in the spirit world to investigate phenomena, would that be right?  You were aware of the different scientific techniques that you’ve been taught?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Some of us have more awareness than others, yes.

Jesus:                       Okay, and now if you look at some of the scientific techniques, then obviously one of the scientific techniques is to experiment with something to see whether it’s true or not, and the process of experimentation will often determine whether it is true or not! As you know, there are experiments that can be suggested to you by spirits who are aware that there is a God and that God does exist and there are experiments that you can try, if you, if you desire to try them, which will actually help you come to form a conclusion about whether God does exist or not! 

My suggestion is this. In terms of your progression you have two options available to you at the moment. One option is for you to continue to investigate the creation. Now to do that is going to require that you continually go through a process of experimentation, one experiment after another, to determine truth.  The alternative is for you to actually, …if there is a Creator, for you to connect with the Creator of the creation, and if you do that you can actually enter into some kind of dialogue with God, if there is a method of communicating with that Creator, then obviously there is then a method of being able to determine the truth of creation by talking to the Creator.  Does that make sense? 

So if there is a Creator, …I am saying, …then the fastest possible method of learning truth would be to ask the Creator what the truth is.  If there is no Creator then you’re going to have to go through this method of experimentation that you’ve already been doing.  My suggestion is to try the experiments as to whether there is a Creator or not and try and process that experiment, which is going to involve you to determine truth in some different ways that you currently have been.  You may finish up wanting to connect to the Creator and have a personal relationship with the Creator, rather than keeping on this consistent path of experimentation.  Do you follow what I mean there?

N. L. D./Atheists:    We do follow you, we do follow, yes!

Jesus:                       So my suggestion would be, …there are some bright spirits who have, …who are around you, and they can just appear before you now! These spirits have been waiting for you to move on to, you know, to this path of progression.  Some of these spirits are on the Natural Love path and other ones of these spirits are on the Divine Love path. Now when I say these two paths, the Natural Love path is the path of investigating creation.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Does that require a belief in God also!

Jesus:                       Um, not really but what will happen in that path is eventually there will be so many phenomena that you investigate that in the end your conclusion will probably be that there must be a God, all right. And for many of the spirits who are more developed than yourselves on that path, they have come to the conclusion that there is certainly a God.  They don’t see God as a God that they can have a personal relationship with but they do still feel there is one. 

On the other path, what they’re doing is they’re learning to connect with the Creator and learn all truths from the Creator, in other words, they don’t need to go through this huge process of experimentation that if you don’t believe in the Creator you will need to go through.  My suggestion first though, is to try the experiments surrounding whether there is a Creator or not! That’s number one. Secondly look very closely at the emotions within you as to why you so strongly want to do things as if there is no Creator.

N. L. D./Atheists:    I have, I have researched this within myself and I have the answer to this question for you now.

Jesus:                       Well, what’s the answer then?

N. L. D./Atheists:    It is a question of trusting, (Jesus: Okay), I am not able to trust

Jesus:                       Okay.

N. L. D./Atheists:    I am not able to trust that which I cannot see and know.

Jesus:                       Can you look back in your life on earth? When was the first time that you ever felt that feeling of mistrust?  When, …when did that happen?

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’ve had it with me always. That is why I, …I was an atheist, …that is why I am an atheist.  There is nothing that can be proven and therefore I do not trust it.

Jesus:                       Okay, so at some point if you’re going to connect with this Creator, if this Creator does exist, then if you’re willing to try that experiment, your going to have to at least trust something, aren’t you?  Can you see that?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Yes, I can see that.

Jesus:                       Now if you continue to go down this road of mistrust then obviously you’re going to have to experiment with everything and determine everything without trusting…

N. L. D./Atheists:    That is why I research, we all research! We, ...we read, and we experiment, and we do all these things because it is impossible to trust anything and there is so much information now, it is overwhelming!  The amount of information that you can continually research and research and research…

Jesus:                       Exactly, exactly.  Yes, and you can get presented from spirits information after information after information and so forth and in the end you don’t know what’s truth and…

N. L. D./Atheists:    So how do we know?  We cannot trust anything, this is where I, this is where I know I am.

Jesus:                       Yes, well firstly one thing to bear in mind is that the spirits who are in a brighter condition than you and who are obviously in a happier state than you, must be happier than you for a reason!  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Can I trust that?

Jesus:                       Well do they look brighter for a start?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Yes they look brighter!

Jesus:                       Do they live where you live?

N. L. D./Atheists:    No they do not!

Jesus:                       Where do they live?  Can you go with them to where they live?

N. L. D./Atheists:    I do not know where they live!

Jesus:                       Well let’s say for a moment, we asked a group of these spirits to loan you some of their energy. Now what they will do is they will project into your mind a picture of where they actually live.  Can you do that for a moment?  (Pause)

N. L. D./Atheists:    Oh!

Jesus:                       Can you see where they live now?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Looks like paradise!

Jesus:                       Yes.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Oh! That’s quite surprising!

Jesus:                       Why’s that?

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’ve seen nothing like that here!

Jesus:                       Okay, so where they live is obviously very different to where you’re living.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Yes.

Jesus:                       Now there must be a reason why they can live there.

N. L. D./Atheists:    They’re choosing that!

Jesus:                       Why wouldn’t you choose it?  Lets …

N. L. D./Atheists:    I did not know it existed!

Jesus:                       Right, so right now, right now try to choose that, as to where you live. Can you do that as an experiment?

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’m trying now.

Jesus:                       Okay, let’s see how successful…

N. L. D./Atheists:    I wish to live in that environment (Pause)

Jesus:                       Did anything change?

N. L. D./Atheists:    No, I’m still here, why?  Because I don’t trust!

Jesus:                       Well that is one reason…

N. L. D./Atheists:    So if I trust in God, or just trust that I believe what I have seen I can (Jesus: Lets...) create that?

Jesus:                       Let’s try that, lets try now trusting it and seeing whether that gets you there.

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’m not sure I know how to trust!

Jesus:                       Right, well trust is a feeling, isn’t it? (Pause)

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’m trusting.

Jesus:                       Let’s try that experiment.

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’m trusting (Pause) No!

Jesus:                        Still can’t get there can you?

N. L. D./Atheists:    No!

Jesus:                       Okay so obviously it’s not that either is it? 

N. L. D./Atheists:    No.

Jesus:                       So there must be some other reason why they’re there where they are and you’re where you are (Pause)…

N. L. D./Atheists:    I’ve had a, …yes that is an interesting question.

Jesus:                       Ok, wouldn’t it be best to just ask them why they’re where they are and then to try and accept what they say to you (Pause) …and try that as an experiment.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Okay we wish to progress so this, …this is a good idea.

Jesus:                       Good! So my suggestion is to listen to these bright spirits as to why they say they got to those locations and how they got there and to try the same experiments that they’ve tried.  Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Atheists:    Are we not (cough)? My difficulty is if I do not believe in God how can I commit to God!  Do, …do we have to do this? This would require great difficulty on our part at this time.

Jesus:                       Well one of the reasons why your very resistant about the thought of God is that you think that somehow if you enter a relationship with God that your going to have to worship God, your going to lose yourself, your going to have to lose your desires, your going to have to become subservient; and this is all not the case, these are all untruths.  Right!  And this is one of the reasons why you’re so resistant about the thought of God, because you have so many injured concepts about God.  Does that make sense?  There are emotions within you where you believe God to be something that God isn’t.

N. L. D./Atheists:    That, that, …yes I understand that.

Jesus:                       So perhaps for a moment what you all as a group need to do is start conceiving that perhaps God is not the God that you’ve imagined God to be.

N. L. D./Atheists:    I believe we can do that.

Jesus:                       And therefore God may be something outside of your current conceptions.

N. L. D./Atheists:    That is interesting.

Jesus:                       Does that make sense?

N. L. D./Atheists:    That is quite interesting!

Jesus:                       Yes, now perhaps it’s worth then listening to what these other spirits say about what their conception of God is, compared to yours, in other words, expand your possible conceptions of what you believe God may be.

N. L. D./Atheists:    I believe we are willing to do this.

Jesus:                       Okay, so there’s quite a lot of experiments you can try actually! Firstly to experiment about the idea of there being a God and also experiment with what kind of God, God is, as well. Once you do this what will happen is you can then make a choice, …Do I want to progress without God, right, or do I want to progress with God? Now if you want to progress without God, that’s fine, there is a way to do that!  But I must tell you that way is slower and more cumbersome and also has limitations in that you’ll only progress to the sixth sphere or the sixth dimension and you won’t be able to progress above that.  If you progress with God, because God is infinite, and this is one of the things or facts about God that you may be able to learn, then it would also then make sense that as you progress towards God you’ll progress infinitely.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Is it possible to do both?

Jesus:                       Um, you can certainly progress on this path, on the, …what I call the Natural Love path and in fact when you progress on the Divine Love path it certainly incorporates the Natural Love path.  But every time you choose to be self-reliant you’ll find it’s just going to slow down your progression. But it’s up to you, you’re allowed to do that because it’s your choice, God gave you this free will to make this choice, so you’re allowed to do that, if that’s what you wish!  My suggestion though is to first try the experiments about God and to see whether you can feel emotions from God and if you can try those experiments then you will soon see whether there is a God or not and whether you can trust that God or not!

N. L. D./Atheists:    I do believe that this group that I am with is now willing to see what else can be achieved.  We, we, we wish, we do, our desire, yes! Progress! Progress!!

Jesus:                       Yeah.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Yes!

Jesus:                       You look at the pretty pictures that they gave you of their locations, where they live, and surely that would be anyone’s desire to live in those locations wouldn’t it.

N. L. D./Atheists:    Of course!

Jesus:                       And that’s the prospect that’s before you as well!

N. L. D./Atheists:    We are, …we are interested, ….we are very interested! We, …we will continue with, …with everything that is before us now and we thank you so much for your patience and your understanding and we know you have a strong belief in God and therefore it was very good of you to communicate with us in this way because we can be quite, yes, judgmental.  Thank you very much!

Jesus:                       It is my pleasure.